In the congregation I serve, we have to make a concerted effort to make sure that men are serving as elders, deacons, liturgists, preachers, etc.

I don’t mean to be dismissive of women who have been overlooked, because I know that happens. But I do think there is value in the interview requirements because change happens when you know people. Once you’ve seen a woman preach, it becomes possible to imagine a woman preaching. Does that make sense?

Oh, and sadly I do know people who can’t break through a barrier that male colleagues with the same or less experience have. Very real.

But everyth ing you say is right on.

Incomplete thought #2 that probably fits best on the other post:
While I know there are women out there who want positions that women aren’t currently holding, one of the questions I ask out of curiosity not challenge is how far from the goal are we? How many women are seeking these positions, but not getting them?

In complete thought #3:
Even if I don’t want those positions, and frankly don’t feel called to them, I sure do want women somewhere to have some of them. If it turned out there were a whole lot of women like me who were fine not serving in contexts like that, but we still believe that it is not just important, but crucial that there be women in those positions, are some of us going to have take one for the team and do it to help change the future? (Assuming the Spirit could get churches to participate.) And if there are a lot of us who don’t want them – - why is that? Have we been socialized to think we won’t do well in them? Are those church cultures not offering the kind of intangible benefits some of us are looking for? Are we avoiding the gender battle we don’t have energy to wage? All sorts of questions to ask in this part.

So, no complete thoughts. No sure answer from me. I have a hard time looking at this whole topic systemically because I have a hard time getting past where I am in it personally.

One of your early questions was how is the requirement working for churches and/or women. Now in my second call, I have interviewed with a number of churches to different degrees. One of them, when I arrived for our face-to-face interview and neutral pulpit, had the honesty to admit that based on their own feelings and the expressed opinion of their congregation, they were only interviewing women because they had to. Even the young woman on the PNC, a peer of mine in age, education, and family status, said she could have never imagined a woman pastor. However, when I got there I was one of three (all three female) final candidates. They admitted that through the requirement of interviewing they had been changed.

So while I doubt it’s common, and I don’t think it probably has the desired effect of working REAL change in the church, at least in this one little case it worked. Even just the requirement to look at ONE worked.

(The end of the story – - They extended the call to me, but my response, if I could have said it with any integrity, would have been “HELL TO THE NO!” Instead I went with a nice polite, “I feel like God is calling me to another ministry at this time.”)